Interview: Mayuko Sasayama

Mayuko Sasayama

That’s what it was like 10 years ago. So, my job was to sell sake but at the same time it was to educate people about sake so they know what it is and will try it, so they will understand what sake is. That it’s not liquor, it’s a fermented beverage. So, most of my my job was educating people about what sake is.

I left my job in 2022, and in 2023 I published El Mundo del Sake, a sake guidebook written in Spanish.

There are only two books about sake available in Spanish. The first one was written by Antonio Campins in 2009, who is also a toji (master brewer), and his book presents sake from the perspective of a toji. My book, on the other hand, is more like a textbook. It covers all aspects of sake — not only the technical information, but also its history, tasting methods, food pairing, and even includes recipes for otsumami (Japanese tapas to enjoy with sake).

I don’t focus on any one type or brand, I talk about the history of sake, how it’s made, and also about what sommeliers in Spain are interested in, which is the flavour, the aroma, how to taste. There are some recipes for pairing sake with Spanish ingredients, and sake cocktail recipes too. So my book is about sake overall, and after it was published in 2023 I focused more on education. I launched my sake class in Spanish because–I didn’t intend to create my own class, but no-one else wanted to do it. I talked to, you know, the big sake examination companies, there are lots of them. And most of them said no, they were not interested in doing courses in Spanish.

And to expand sake education in Spanish countries, the courses have to be in Spanish. If it’s in English, very few people will know about sake and it won’t be for everyone. So, it was a must to do courses in Spanish, and no one wanted to do it. Fortunately I had my book and it was a good textbook for a class so I decided to do my own. Now I dedicate my time to expanding this class to other Spanish speaking countries such as Mexico and South America, because there also there is no nowhere to learn about sake in Spanish.

And I’m sure Mexico is one of the biggest markets for sake, people drink sake there. But they don’t know what they’re drinking. I went to Mexico last year to investigate a little bit, and people like sake, they drink it but they don’t know what it is. And I think if there is some education added to that, the market will become much bigger. And it’s the same in South America as well, a lot of people like to drink alcohol, right? It’s not like Asian countries where they often drink more beer than anything else. In South America they’re quite used to sake. For example, in Brazil people often drink sake. It’s quite common to have sake in the house, in the fridge. Maybe the quality is not the best, but they’re accustomed to drinking sake, they know about sake. So I think if there’s some education on top of that, then the market will be even bigger. So, my goal now is to run this educational class all over the world, especially in Spanish speaking countries.

Q: I’m really surprised that the big education companies thought that Spanish wasn’t worth it.

Mayuko:I know! Spanish is the most common mother tongue, even more than English.

 Q: You told us about your experience ten years ago with sake in Spain, nobody knew what it was, nobody wanted to try it. What is it like today, has the situation improved?

Yes, it has changed dramatically. Mostly after COVID, say in 2021–22. Before that, only certain people who love wine or sommeliers knew about sake. Now, I won’t say it’s become normal, but it’s quite easy to find sake in a non-Japanese restaurant. Not everywhere. But you know, Spain is a country of gastronomy and the high level restaurants quite often have sake on their menu. Spanish sommeliers see sake knowledge as an advantage, something that differentiates them from other sommeliers. So a lot of famous sommeliers are now learning about sake and selling it at their restaurants. It’s changed a lot in the last three years.

Q: It’s a problem when sake gets stuck in Japanese restaurants. I heard from some online retailers that their sales of sake went up during the pandemic and they put that down to people being stuck at home and frustrated and wanting to try something new. Do you think that also happened in Spain?

Mayuko: I think that’s one reason. Also, people wanted to travel but couldn’t so they wanted to have something Japanese at home. And after the pandemic a lot of Spanish people went to Japan, came back to Spain, and now they drink sake quite often. I think that helped.

One interesting factor is that although lots of people visit Japan as tourists and even though Spain is not the wealthiest country, Spanish people spend more money in Japan than people from other countries. They’re willing to pay more, especially for food.

Q: What inspired you to organise Iberkanpai?

Mayuko: One reason is because over the last three years Spain has more sake importers than before. Ten or even five years ago there were about three big companies doing importing and distribution. But now there are eight or nine. When there were only three, there was no competition. It didn’t make for a good market, a competitive market. A small number of companies can control prices, sell what they want. And as those three were quite different, they weren’t really competing against each other. But now there are eight or maybe ten companies which creates more competition and makes for a healthy market.

When I was working in that one company it was hard to get everyone to do something together. The importers were competitors, so getting them to cooperate and do something together was very difficult. Personally, I wanted everyone to cooperate but the company, the bosses, didn’t want to do it. But now I’m no longer in a competitor company, I’m someone in the middle and I know everyone. I did one small event at the Japanese Embassy in Madrid in 2023 with all the importers and I invited restaurants. It’s hard to believe but that was the first time everyone was in the same place. Because no one could do it, no one wanted to do it. But with the help of the Japanese Embassy, we got all the importers together and did a small sake event. All the restaurant people who came were very happy, very satisfied, and they wanted to see more. Lots of them told me “oh, I didn’t know there were so many companies importing sake.” Only three were quite well known, the rest were not so. So I wanted to help those companies as well, so that people can get to know them.

That event was quite successful, so I thought “maybe I can do a bigger one”. My friend who organised that event is also the organiser for Iberkanpai, she’s a chef, she’s half Japanese, half Spanish. She’s more involved with the food section, and I’m more involved with the sake section. We’ve known each other for for more than ten years. So we thought that maybe we could do something together, combining sake and gastronomy. The Japanese food will create a bigger market, and attract people. She’s quite famous in Spain too, so we’re doing this together, me and her, we’re trying to do something big.

Q: Have you had a good response to Iberkanpai, in Spain and in Japan?

Mayuko: Yes! On the Japan side, we have about 50 companies participating as exhibitors and half are coming from Japan. Fortunately, I could speak to the Japanese National Tax Agency (NTA), they will also participate as an exhibitor and they will bring 20 breweries from Japan. It’s our first time, we don’t have any any history or data that we can show them to prove that the event will be a success. But I’ve worked with the NTA many times so they trust me and they said yes, and they are participating. And on the Spanish side, we are now fully booked. All the exhibitor spaces were full in January, we did not expect that. We thought it might take until right before the event to be fully booked. But we’re booked, we’re full now. So the reaction in Spain was also very good, the reaction from restaurants was good. And I hope people will come.

Q: What do you hope Iberkanpai will change in Spain?

Mayuko: I hope it will create a connection between the Japanese breweries and importers or distributors, and also restaurant people. Another aim of Iberkanpai is, lots of breweries ask me for suggestions or recommendations for a good importer, but I can’t answer that. Everyone has their own perspective and the most important thing is that they feel comfortable with each other, have the same direction and the same ideas. That’s really important and I cannot guarantee that any one partner will be the best possible one. So I want them to see for themselves and talk face to face, see what feeling they get. And if the brewery thinks they can work together, then they should choose that importer or distributor. So, to solve this problem of people asking me for for advice and I couldn’t say anything, I wanted to bring people together, from the Japanese side and the Spanish side, and let them connect.

Q: It’s interesting to see that people like restaurants, the end buyers are involved as well. I’ve heard some frustration around how organisations like the NTA or JETRO help breweries to connect with importers–but nothing else. So, there’s no pull, no demand from local bars and restaurants. So you’re taking a wider view.

Mayuko: That’s true. And this time about half the breweries already have distributors in Spain, and half are newcomers looking for importers.

Q: What’s your favourite type of sake to pair with Spanish food? You can have more than one!

Mayuko: I don’t have any specific sake, but I love Spanish ham, Iberico ham. I’m 100% sure that sake goes better with ham. Wine is very good but for good ham it has to be sake to appreciate the taste. And a junmai, kimoto or kioke sake would be nice with ham. Something with a lot of body and acidity, a full-bodied type of sake would be nice. And I love cheese and sake as well. I did a lot of events with cheese and sake in Spain, and people loved it. This time, we will do a cheese and sake seminar too. That is my favourite, the pairing of sake and cheese. And my favourite cheese to pair with sake is called Brabander, it’s a goat Gouda cheese made in Holland. I think that’s my favourite, it has a lot of umami. It’s like white chocolate full of umami. Some kimoto sake with this is very good.

Q: Do you have any recommendations for where people can go in Spain to experience sake with Spanish food?

Mayuko: There are some places for Spanish food, with a touch of Asian. It is Spanish food, but people think Spanish food equals traditional Spanish food like paella or tortilla. And nowadays when we talk about Spanish food, or Spanish restaurants, we’re talking about creative Spanish cuisine. It’s more like the chef’s own dishes. So there are not many places with traditional Spanish food, it’s more the creative food. There’s Asian, African, Spanish, French, all mixed together and the chef creates their own dishes.

One place that you can enjoy is Ugo Chan. Ugo is the name of the chef, and Chan is Japanese. There’s another place called Playing Solo, they’re both in Madrid. In Barcelona there’s the famous Disfrutar, which is the number one restaurant in the world and they serve sake as well. I’m actually going there in May to do a presentation about sake.

Q: Apart from Iberkanpai, what are you excited about in the sake world at the moment?

Mayuko: Nowadays, there are so many types of sake. There was variety ten years ago, but not this much. Now there’s craft sake, there are so many different types of sake that go so well with non-Japanese cuisines. So, I think that is very exciting for foreigners that they can try pairing not just with wine but with sake and wine. I think that will become more and more popular and that’s something I’m excited about.

I just hope that in Spain after Iberkanpai the market will expand and there will healthy relations and healthy competition, because it was not healthy before.

Q: Is there anything else you want to add?

Mayuko: I hope that the Japanese side will take a closer look at Spanish speaking countries, not just England or France or the United States. The world of Spanish speaking countries is huge, and I think Mexico in particular is one of the biggest and most interesting place to sell sake.

Q: I think it’s very popular in Brazil as well. Do you think that’s due to the fact that there was Japanese emigration to Brazil?

Mayuko: Yes, it’s because of that. Sake has been made in Brazil for maybe 20 years, it’s a Japanese brand but made in Brazil, called Higashi Kirin or something like that.

Q: And there are small sake breweries now in Mexico or Brazil?

Mayuko: In Mexico there’s one called Nami. It’s good. I tried it in Mexico.

Q: Going back to Spain, the Salon du Sake in Paris hosts a round table of importers, distributors and brewers from around Europe every year, and one of the themes that keeps coming up is that in one group of countries–Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria–people are very conservative and it can be hard to get them to try or adopt sake. And in another group–including Italy and Spain–people don’t care where something is from. If it tastes good, they’ll try it.

Yes! If it’s good, they’ll try and they will buy as well.

I remember going to a quite famous restaurant, where the chef is very famous and I asked him for his recommendation for a glass of wine. He brought me two bottles of red wine, and he mixed them. And I don’t know if it’s taboo, but it’s not normal to mix wine, right? Especially in a good restaurant. It was a good restaurant, and he’s quite famous, but he mixed the wines because he he thinks it’s better, it tastes better. Spanish people believe their tongue, they like what they like. Spain is one country where they don’t care about competition medals or awards. They don’t care if something won a gold medal or silver. It’s the same for wine, they only pay attention maybe to Parker points. Other than that, they don’t care.

Event details

Date: May 12–13, 2025

Location: Hotel NH Collection Eurobuilding, Madrid

Tickets: General admission: €30 (includes a complimentary sake glass for tastings throughout the fair)

VIP admission: €50 (includes access to the VIP room with exclusive premium sake tastings)

 More info & tickets: www.iberkanpai.com

Press accreditation: https://www.iberkanpai.com/prensawww.iberkanpai.com/prensa

Naumi Uemura

Co-founder of IBERKANPAI, chef and owner of the restaurant UEMURA. (Opened 2010, located on Calle Sánchez Pacheco 84 in Madrid.) In 2023, she founded UEMURA ACADEMY, the only place in the world where it is possible to obtain the Bronze Badge certification — issued by the Government of Japan — in Japanese culinary techniques, entirely in Spanish.